ZeSword
Bruxelles, Belgique

AVATAR
[1vs1 30 pv] Banlist du 08/04/2016
le 04/04/2016 13:54
Duel Commander kept looking the same over the last months. That is: a barren confrontation between two main archetypes: blue decks, which are mostly based on “counterspell”-like cards and effects as a defensive barrier, and green decks, filled with “mana dorks” (cheap mana-producing creatures) and commander interactions in order to generate a resource gap between players.
We’ve let the format go that way for a long time, hoping for it to regulate naturally. Unfortunately, over the last months, that phenomenon intensified, crystallizing the format and revolving it around those two basic archetypes (cf. diagram : stats based on the last months, according to major events results)

Such a freeze of the metagame could be linked to several factors. The quality of the most played cards that belong to those colors, the important redundancy of their core effects, or even the game format rules are often blamed. On the other side, we noted that the duality of the current format is significantly stressed by an element that we cherish within the format: the disparity of commander cards.
Indeed, those two archetypes dominate the format thanks to a bunch of overpowered commanders that threaten the diversity of the format.
The reasons behind this hegemony often cumulate:
They make use of some abilities that provide an unbalanced advantage over several strategies or threat-handling means.
Their abilities abuse structural benefits and overpowered cards that their colors give access to.
Their raw statistics make them better than most other substitutes within the same archetypes.

The changes from today’s rules and bans updates aim at partially correcting this problem, so as to reverse the “immobilism trend” that our favourite format is now going through.


Changes:
Tasigur, the Golden Fang is now banned as a commander only.
Yisan, the Wanderer Bard is now banned as a commander only.
Gaea's Cradle is now banned.
Marath, Will of the Wild is added to the watchlist.
Animar, Soul of Elements is added to the watchlist.
Narset, Enlightened Master is added to the watchlist.
Jenara, Asura of War is added to the watchlist.
Cataclysm is removed from the watchlist.


Reminders:

The watchlist is made for dangerous cards that could end up being banned (this is a change from previous listing systems, see below).
Before this update, Cataclysm was on the watchlist.
Necrotic Ooze and Dig through time remain on the watchlist.

Regarding lists
We chose to unify the previously existing Orange and Red watchlists. The information they provided was complex and was all in all irrelevant. This double watchlist system didn’t bring a lot of positive things to us, although it never got annoying when we had to take decisions. A commander should still, except in some cases, end up on the watchlist before it gets eventually banned.


A note regarding colored mana and mana pools
Previously, the rule regarding the producing of colored mana was as follows: “If a player would add colored mana to his or her mana pool that is outside the color identity of his or her commander, that player adds colorless mana instead.”.
This rule is now removed, as stated in the (upcoming) Duel Commander comprehensive rules:

Duel Commander comprehensive rules a écrit :
500.5. Colored mana in pools
While DC used to follow a different rule for colored mana into mana pools, no additional rule modifies the official Magic The Gathering rules when regarding colored mana. Please note this is not the case anymore since April 8th, 2016. All the texts that are printed on cards apply. If a player would add colored mana to his or her mana pool that is not in his or her commander’s color identity, the players effectively adds the mana to his or her mana pool, like in any other game, and may spend it like in any other game.


These changes apply on April 8, 2016. Of course, you can still contact us via our Facebook page. The next announcements will be published on July 18, 2016 (applying on July 22, 2016).

Until then, we wish you all many good games!


Further individual explanations:
Tasigur, the Golden Fang
Tasigur, the Golden Fang makes all other control commanders look ridiculous, when compared to it, mostly thanks to its ridiculous casting cost ({B} + delve casting cost payment mechanic). Such a quality allows it to exhaust all possible answers from opponents, as well as to winning a “counterspell battle”, even though being the card that settles such battles. The rest of the decks can solely be made of “reaction” cards (spot/mass removals, for example), for Tasigur, the Golden Fang is an oppressive threat whatsoever. Last but not the least, this card interacts strongly with other cards like Life from the loam or Upheaval. For all those reasons, Tasigur, the Golden Fang is now banned as a commander only.

Yisan, the Wanderer Bard
Yisan, the Wanderer Bard is a green commander that has a huge impact on the battlefield, that only costs three mana and that can therefore enter the battlefield on turn two very often, via a turn one/two accelerator. We are deeply persuaded that such commanders harm the format. Yisan, the Wanderer Bard is de facto a quick card advantage source that grows quickly, and that therefore produces fantastically responsive and explosive games. It is so dangerous for the format that its mere presence forces opponents to make very costly adaptations. Yisan, the Wanderer Bard is therefore banned as a commander only, so as to maintain more balance in the format.

Gaea's Cradle
Gaea’s cradle allows players to develop their deck strategies roughly and suddenly. Being particularly hard to stop when playing active decklists, its presence in the metagame reinforces control decks, which end up being the only decks that are able to handle a wide number of opponent creatures. It also amplifies the existing cleavage between active, green-based decks and other non-explosive decks. For having a very negative impact on the format, Gaea’s cradle is now banned.

Narset, Enlightened Master
If Tasigur, the Golden Fang is clearly the best commander for a “draw-go” strategy, Narset, Enlightened Master is the best commander for a “tapped out” strategy. Having considered this major strategic alternative, that Narset/Tasigur duet also covers the whole spectrum of colors and outmatches all other legendary blue creatures. In order to maintain the format balance and its diversity, we chose to add Narset, Enlightened Master to the watchlist.

Marath, Will of the Wild
As a commander that takes some advantage from the commander casting tax, Marath, Will of the Wild is a commander that scales its power as the games go on. It is very hostile to all creature-based decks and therefore cleans up the format for blue control decks.
Since its metagame presence remains a leash to all agressive strategies, we are adding Marath, Will of the Wild to the watchlist.

Animar, Soul of Elements
Animar, Soul of Elements is a green commander with a very high impact, that only costs three mana and can therefore enter the battlefield on turn two for the same reasons we already mentionned regarding other cards alike. We have long waited before adding Animar, Soul of Elements to a watchlist, for decklists built around it remain very original and unique. Despite all that waiting time, the explosiveness of the deck and the lack of interactions with opponents (mostly due to its protection effects) forced us to add this card to the watchlist.

Jenara, Asura of War
Jenara, Asura of War is another green commander with a high impact on games, that costs three mana, and can also enter the battlefield on turn two for the same reasons we already mentionned regarding other cards alike. Jenara, Asura of War is another case of commander that is very well adapted to play a large amount of counterspell-like cards. It belongs therefore to the two categories we described up above: blue decks and green decks. We decided to add this card to the watchlist for those reasons.

Cataclysm
Cataclysm is a spectacular card that allows a player who is being strangled in an adapted situation to annihilate almost any opposing force. Yet, its impact depends a lot on the situation and alternates between a risky move (most of the time) and a determining move (rarely). Such a card is not truly unbalanced and accessing it is quite limited. White is the fourth most played color in Duel Commander. We think it would be a mistake from us to deprive this color of such an attractive card. Plus, it is already integrated in most of the decks that need it. For all those reasons, we removed Cataclysm from the watchlist.

The following two cards remain in the watchlist:
Dig Through Time
Dig through time remains watched, yet still legal, for all the reasons we described earlier when it was added to the watchlist.

Necrotic Ooze
Regarding Necrotic Ooze, we keep an eye on this card, which is the core of an extremely non-interactive combo. We chose to balance the format using commander cards rather than specific, individual, non-commander cards (which would require an overly high amount of banned cards).
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Bahamut52
Première classe du SOLDAT, Gongaga

le 04/04/2016 14:01
Ah bah pour le coup c'est radical! Ce sont toutefois de bons bans
balbou
Lavardac, France
Légende
le 04/04/2016 15:05
ce sont les cartes banne en 1VS1? vous aurez la liste en Français svp
Windston
Comité DC - Consultant
le 04/04/2016 15:09
nicoG2
Géant
...
le 04/04/2016 15:54
R.I.P gaia's craddle alors?
Cool une raison de + de passer/rester au old school original commander ;)
ZeSword
Bruxelles, Belgique

AVATAR
le 04/04/2016 16:06
@balbou
Comme l'a écrit Windston, j'ai récapitulé ça en français dans le premier fil de discussion du forum. Note également qu'en survolant les balises card que j'ai insérées, si tes préférences sont en français sur magic-ville, les balises sont en français.
Naesty
le 04/04/2016 16:46
Citation :
Tasigur, the Golden Fang is now banned as a commander only.
Yisan, the Wanderer Bard is now banned as a commander only.
Gaea's Cradle is now banned.
Marath, Will of the Wild is added to the watchlist.
Animar, Soul of Elements is added to the watchlist.
Narset, Enlightened Master is added to the watchlist.
Jenara, Asura of War is added to the watchlist.


J'ai l'impression qu'on va finir par Bannir tous les généraux pour faire du bon vieux singleton au final ...

Un général est fort ? Ok bon ben faut le mettre en watchlist pour préparer le ban dans 2 édition... J'ai l'impression que le format va seulement évoluer avec l'arrivée de nouveau généraux et qu'on va se retrouver avec une rotation style T2 dans quelques années ...
Dragonsnoirs
CAEN, France
le 04/04/2016 16:50
je ne comprends pas le sens de :

Citation :
500.5. Colored mana in pools
While DC used to follow a different rule for colored mana into mana pools, no additional rule modifies the official Magic The Gathering rules when regarding colored mana. Please note this is not the case anymore since April 8th, 2016. All the texts that are printed on cards apply. If a player would add colored mana to his or her mana pool that is not in his or her commander’s color identity, the players effectively adds the mana to his or her mana pool, like in any other game, and may spend it like in any other game.


Si une source doit faire du alors que mon général est d'identité , j'aurais bien un mana au lieu de l'incolore avant cette mise à jour ?
c'est bien ca?
Xamael
le 04/04/2016 16:58
C'est bien ça, les sources de mana produiront ce qu'elles peuvent, même si ça ne correspond pas à l'identité de couleur de ton général (Et donc par extension de ton deck).
xbod
Modérateur section EDH
Géant
le 04/04/2016 17:00
Oui

Enfin il te faisait de mana produit par les wast (et non pas du générique)
asimov67
Metz, France
le 05/04/2016 9:40
Citation :
Jenara, Asura of War
Jenara, Asura of War is another green commander with a high impact on games, that costs three mana, and can also enter the battlefield on turn two for the same reasons we already mentionned regarding other cards alike. Jenara, Asura of War is another case of commander that is very well adapted to play a large amount of counterspell-like cards. It belongs therefore to the two categories we described up above: blue decks and green decks. We decided to add this card to the watchlist for those reasons.



Je ne comprends pas pourquoi ne pas avoir mis Kesato sur la watchlist.
Pourtant il remplit les mêmes conditions que Jenara.

S'il vous plait, soyez gentil, expliquez moi.
Est ce parce que Jenara est un ange et vous n'aimez pas les anges?
Est ce parce que votre explication justifiant sa place dans la watchliste est très mauvaise?
Ou est ce parce que Jenara aurait jamais du se retrouvé sur la watchliste?
BWdude
le 05/04/2016 9:45
@asimov67: Jenara, c'est une mesure de prudence, plus que autre chose, c'est au cas ou le gege serait trop recurrent et empecherais eventuellement certains strategies d'exister meme si l'angelotte a des match up moyen vs les deck qui joue des blast. Le comité fait gaffe aux generaux verts a trois qui peuvent sortir trop tot et s'averer explosifs mais, je pense que ça sera le dernier a se faire ban ou qu'il jartera l'orange list a la prochaine fois.
ElFN0iR
France
le 05/04/2016 9:49
Kaseto, Orochi Archmage est un poouuuissant sorcier.
Empereur Poulpatine, La Tielle de 7

le 05/04/2016 9:51
Kirdie a bien expliqué le pourquoi du comment sur l'autre topic hier (les 4 critères reuni chez Jenara). Même si c'est noyé sous un flot de post en allant sur son compte tu devrais retrouver ses explications.

Par contre la formulation de ton post est assez inquietante asimov. As tu peur pour l'aspect competitif du format dans l'avenir?
Empereur Poulpatine, La Tielle de 7

le 05/04/2016 9:53
Je demande ça parce que c'est ce que ça me fait. Mettre tout le tiers 1 en watchlist dont 2 sur la banlist en un coup, ça envoi un fort message.
ff26
Montélimar, France
le 05/04/2016 9:54
Nan mais, s'ils avaient dû watchlister toute légendaire à 3 ccm, la liste aurait été longue.
Par contre, Jenara perfe quand même plus que Kaseto.
xbod
Modérateur section EDH
Géant
le 05/04/2016 9:58
Jenara, comparé au serpet, est tri-color (on rajoute la blanc pour la gestion universelle) et vol et en plus se boost :P

Je veut dire par la que en plus de devoir tourner autour des contres, le mec peu bluffer et garder 2 mana détap pour booster alors que nous on craindras le contre

Après c'est le jeux ma pauvre Lucette ^^

Je veut bien vos avis a Oliv et Asimov sur ce coup de fusil automatique sur les tiers 1
asimov67
Metz, France
le 05/04/2016 10:05
Merci Oliv, je chercherai son post dans la journée.


Il semblerait surtout que je partage une vision différente.
Je prône:
- le ban des tuteurs au lieu des combos
- le ban de cartes individuelles au lieu d'un général

Je suis content du départ de Cradle.
Je suis partagé sur Yisan et Tasigur mais reste en accord avec cette décision.
Je préfère voir survie sur la watchlist que marath ou animar (combo statue, combo kiki, combo etc).
Je préfère voir demonic tutor ou enterré vivant que Ooze sur la watchlist.

Je considère Narset & Jenara comme des généraux "fair", à mes yeux rien ne justifie de les voir sur la watchlist.
Je juge que tier 1 ne rime pas avec watchlist.

Enfin, je suis d'avis que les 30 points de vie sont la cause de cette situation et qu'une réduction des pvs (25 de préférence) est nécessaire.




Quant à l'opinion internationale, c'est la merde en ce moment. Autant sur les pages facebook, forums ou mps; les joueurs sont à majorité content de la banliste mais trouve la watchliste "idiote" et surtout inquiétante pour l'avenir du format.
ashalan

Légende
le 05/04/2016 10:10
Citation :
Quant à l'opinion internationale, c'est la merde en ce moment. Autant sur les pages facebook, forums ou mps; les joueurs sont à majorité content de la banliste mais trouve la watchliste "idiote" et surtout inquiétante pour l'avenir du format.


le comité devrait surtout bien précisé ce qu'est là WL, parce que visiblement il y a encore trop de gens qui confondent observation et sanction.
ff26
Montélimar, France
le 05/04/2016 10:17
Bah, Yisan et berceau étaient en orange list, Tasi en red list. Les 3 ont sauté en même temps.

Ya plus qu'une seule watchlist. Donc potentiellement, tout ce qui y est peut sauter à la prochaine annonce. Ou pas.
Kirdie
Comité DC - Règles & Banlist, France
le 05/04/2016 10:26
Faut quand même ne pas avoir poussé l'analyse très loin pour penser que Kaseto et Jenara sont pareils.
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