[Deck][Compet] Arcane Tide
le 21/04/2009 11:38
Voilà la liste créée et testée lors d'un travail conjoint avec nastyjoe en décembre 2008

// NAME : Tide arcane
// CREATOR : amylynnlee1981 (magic-ville.com)
// FORMAT :
18 Island
1 Gigadrowse
1 Turnabout
2 Dampen Thought
4 Accumulated Knowledge
4 Brainstorm
4 High Tide
4 Peer Through Depths
4 Psychic Puppetry
4 Reach Through Mists
4 Words of Wisdom
2 Ponder
4 Ideas Unbound
4 Merchant Scroll

A tester si le deck peut se permettre main deck -1 turnabout + 1 ponder (surtout pour soulager un slot d'unco pour le side).

Side pas encore définitif puisque dépend vraiment du métagame, 4 disrupt semble indispensable tout comme 2 gigadrowse, on peut jouer 3 chill si on a libéré le slot d'unco du MD avec quelques beb pour passer burn post side. Après on peut broder en fonction du métagame attendu (faerie-burn-countertop...)

Le deck produit énormément de manas, bien plus que les versions faerie-snap, rapidement tous les arcanes joués rapportent du mana.

Quand on est parti en combo on finit avec dans la main des pensées découragées et des marionettisme psychique, avec 3 marionettisme et 2 pensées découragées on meule de 36 et chaque arcane en main meule de 8 de plus, sachant que l'adversaire a 60-7-4-tous les words of wisdom cartes dans sa bibliothèque.

Il est facile de faire des tables sur le nombre de high tide résolus/le nombre de manas nécessaire pour tuer.

Une meule de 48 est souvent suffisante pour gagner.

Le deck est stable T4 on the draw, T5 on the play (l'objectif étant de ne pas mourir au T4 de l'adversaire).

Contre contrôle mou sans rewind, y a aucun souci, l'ajout de rewind (technique du T2T ravnica-TS ^^) change peut être la donne, je n'ai pas testé.

C'est un deck combo comme grapeshot avec des forces et des faiblesses différentes donc il me semblait intéressant d'en parler.

Voilà j'ai pas trop le temps de détailler énormément le machin, si vous avez des questions sur le build hésitez pas.
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le 29/04/2009 0:33
Hi Hennink. I like your version, for the very reason amy explained: the huge number of arcanas allows you to kill a control deck EOT 4 cards per 4 cards.

The stream of conciousness think is interesting in my opinion. It gives more arcanas for the engine, and may even shuffle for brainstorm (okay, if you have enough mana ....)

The huge number of arcanas you're playing allows you to get huge amounts of manas, which you're spending in oona's grace (which is 3 manas / 1 card). Why don't you just play Evermind "in place of" oona's grace. It should be way more useful when trying to combo out, 1 mana less is gold at that very moment. Just a though... The bad thing is that it will eat one more uncommon slot, unless you remove one dampen thought as amy adviced (i think it's a good idea too).

In my opinion, the real problem for the deck is the sideboard. It's hard to remove things, and even harder to see what to move in against hard sideboards/decks ("counter-top" and "burn" (or any deck that will run lots of REB post-sideboard) are shining in red in my head while talking about the sideboard)

Do you have ideas for sideboarding? This is "the big problem" I have when i think of <<arcana-tide>>.

Anyway, thank you for sharing ideas with us!
Hennink
le 29/04/2009 10:30
Thank you :) After a bit of tweaking I'm running this list maindeck.

// NAME : Arcane Tide
// CREATOR : amylynnlee1981/Hennink (magic-ville.com)
// FORMAT : Peasant Magic
1 Evermind
4 Brainstorm
1 Gigadrowse
4 High Tide
4 Ponder
4 Reach Through Mists
4 Accumulated Knowledge
2 Dampen Thought
4 Ideas Unbound
4 Merchant Scroll
4 Peer Through Depths
4 Psychic Puppetry
2 Stream of Consciousness
1 Oona's Grace
17 Island

The Evermind is a very good addition, it allows you to go infinite with the 2 Stream of Consciousness once your library is empty.

I still think Oona's Grace is a must have. It takes up only one slot, and you'll easily generate enough mana with this deck to abuse it. Also, the ability to force your opponent to draw is very good, as it allows you to immediately kill him instead of waiting for his draw step. This is especially relevant versus decks with instant burn spells.

As for the sideboard, that's more difficult. As I said, burn isn't really played here, so I'm not that afraid for the deck. I think I would try out...

4 Disrupt
3 Gigadrowse
4 Eye of Nowhere
4 Muddle the Mixture

Disrupt is important against decks with Duress/Hymn to Tourach. You must survive the initial onslaught of discard, other than that you're relatively safe. You might want to play Envelop over Disrupt, but the lack of cantrip hurts in this deck.

Gigadrowse is an obvious inclusion and important vs Counterspells. You might also want to use it to stem creature rushes that can beat your clock.

Eye of Nowhere is an arcane spell and thus splice-friendly. I was thinking of using it vs decks with cipt lands, like the Grapeshot deck and creatures that get large fast.

Muddle the Mixture serves as a counterspell (vs Rewind and the mana generators in Grapeshot Combo) that can replace Merchant Scroll in a pinch. While it doesn't search for High Tide, it does search for all the other important cards, including Ideas Unbound.

This is all theoretical, we should try it out to determine whether these cards work as I think they do :)

le 29/04/2009 13:11
And what would you cut to get your sideboard in? I can see 1 oona's grace, 1 gigadrowse, 1 evermind and eventually 1 stream of conciousness to get 4 disrupt in?

This is the problem I have with the deck. Can't see a good way to cut cards.
Theoretically, I find your vision of the sideboard good: drowse + muddle vs counterspells + rewind sounds good enough to win in my opinion.
Is the eye of nowhere really useful? I think i would prefer muddle the mixture or disrupt against a grapeshot deck, as it will us less mana, but disrupt has "cycling 1U" and muddle the mixture can fetch important cards, while on the other hand eye of nowhere is "just" an arcana...


With your build, you are running 2 slots for "mega-cantrips": 1 evermind and 1 oona's grace. Is it really necessary? I mean, only 1 slot would be good too as this is useful when you have plenty of mana, and you run 4 merchant scroll (okay, they have lots and lots of things to fetch, maybe they will get overworked?) to seek them. Just wondering about this, 1 slot is gold in this deck (in my eyes) :)
Hennink
le 29/04/2009 14:09
If you don't want to play both Evermin and Oona's Grace I would suggest cutting the Evermind.

I haven't tested sideboarded matches yet, so it if difficult to know what to get out. I also don't know if the Eye of Nowhere is good, but is is arcane and has its uses. Clearly this deck needs a lot of testing to craft the perfect sideboard and to know what to pull out of the maindeck.

Against decks that you need to tap down to avoid countermagic, you can probably cut a Dampen Thought and 2 Brainstorm (you have more time to get your things together so you don't need to set up your chain as fast as possible)

Disrupt cantrips, so it could theoratically replace Ponder (not Brainstorm, since that protects key cards vs discard).

Muddle the Mixture transmutes for much the same cards that Merchant Scroll tutors for (not High Tide though!), so it could replace the Scroll post-boarding.

If you are going to cut 1 Stream of Consciousness, you might as well cut both and Evermind. Two Streams and the Evermind keep you going forever..

le 29/04/2009 14:24
Okay, thanks for your reply, I think I am going to test this :)
Hennink
le 02/06/2009 17:37
I played the exact maindeck I suggested above, but changed the sideboard slightly, and got 6th at our may 30th peasant tournament. It's an absolute blast to play! Every bit as fun as it looks!

The sideboard was as follows.

4 Disrupt (vs various decks)
4 Envelop (vs discard decks)
3 Gigadrowse (vs counterspell decks)
4 Hydroblast (vs burn, taïga, and grapeshot combo)

I never boarded in the Envelop, but I didn't encounter any black hand or similar decks, nor Grapeshot combo. Against other decks it's bad.

I was dissapointed in Disrupt. The cantrip is really nice, but in the end it doesn't stop spells if your life depends on it (and it did). It's great vs discard if you can counter the spell, though I would prefer Envelop in that matchup.

I would have been happy with Annul as well, as affinity decks are on the rise now that we unbanned the artifact lands.

The other option would have been Blue Elemental Blast, since I lost to a vise burn deck where aforementioned Disrupt didn't do enough.

I took out Accumulated Knowledge every time. In general it is too slow, and once you get going, the Oona's Grace and Evermind will do the same for you in terms of card advantage.

I've learned to never take out the uncommons! They're vital to keep drawing gas (Evermind), or when you have to burn Dampen Thoughts to generate enough mana to get out of a stickly situation (Stream of Consciousness).

The most likely candidates to take out after game 1 are, in order, the 4 AK's, 1 Gigadrowse, 1 Dampen Thought, 1 Merchant Scroll, 4 Ponders. You want to keep as many arcane spells in the deck as you can possibly keep. The only one I would take out is a single Dampen Thought.

Don't hesitate to board in Gigadrowse if the other deck is is running creatures that are way too fast to handle (Slivers, Silly Simic, maybe Taïga - though Hydroblast is better vs that deck).

hennink
le 02/06/2009 17:46
Thanks for all the information. :)

Did you enter gigadrowse vs burn post SB?
Hennink
le 02/06/2009 17:52
No, I took the single copy out and entered Disrupts and Hydroblasts. They usually play just enough instants to make depending on the Gigadrowse too big of a gamble.

le 02/06/2009 17:55
My idea was to drowse burn the turn before you're going on combo but I don't know if it's relevant or not.

I should test !
Hennink
le 02/06/2009 18:48
Depends if they run enough instants or not. If they fling an Incinerate and a Shard Volley at your head in response you're toast :( Vise Burn is especially nasty, since you can't empty your hand. The counterspells help against that too, because you can actively counter burn spells and at the same time lower your hand size. Still, the matchup is skewed in their favor. A lot.

After sideboarding it only gets worse if they are running Pyroblasts or REBs.

Burn is a fringe deck in our metagame though. It's really not good enough to take the top spot anymore. It's helpless against slivers, storm, and blink. Since I introduced Temple Acolyte to our metagame, things didn't get easier for burn either :)
blind
vole comme un papillon, pique comme une abeille

Fuck!
le 02/06/2009 19:55
French forum!

Hello Hennink! :D
blind
vole comme un papillon, pique comme une abeille

le 02/06/2009 20:14
Pour ceux qui n'ont pas compris c'était pour féliciter cet engouement étranger vis à vis du forum peasant. ;)

je ne tenterais pas une pitoyable traduction.
knightseb
Houilles, FRANCE
...
le 02/06/2009 22:29
For the ones who didn't understand, it was to notify foreign player that I was happy to see them here.

(traduction de l'idée faite à la va-vite) :D
blind
vole comme un papillon, pique comme une abeille

le 02/06/2009 22:42
Merci.

--> Thx.

Faudrait quand même continuer le topic en français/anglais.

--> Beginn this topic in french/english.
Emrad
Blessures en pile (†11 jui 09)
^^
le 02/06/2009 22:44
Wonderful, maybe someday Magic-Ville will be renamed in "Magic-Town" and will contain an english forum :D
And the step after is of course Magic-Universe o/ (what? You mean that name has already been taken? :'( )
Hennink
le 03/06/2009 10:29
Je m'excuse. Ma French est tres bad ;)

:D
le 03/06/2009 10:33
Un serpent !

To continue on the subject, MD you should be one turn quicker than burn no?
Hennink
Arcane Tide vs Vise Burn
le 03/06/2009 13:28
Depends on your draws. You can kill on turn 3 if you draw a good hand, but so can burn.

T1: Mountain, Black Vise (20)
> T1: Take 3, Island, Ponder (17)
T2: Mountain, Lightning Bolt, Chain Lightning (11)
> T2: Take 3, Island, Merchant Scroll (8)
T3: Incinerate (5)
> T3: Take 3 + Fireblast (-2)

So if they go first, you're in a tight spot. Even if they don't have the Black Vise...

T1: Mountain, Hellspark Elemental (17)
> T1: Island, Ponder (17)
T2: Mountain, Lightning Bolt, Chain Lightning (11)
> T2: Island, Merchant Scroll (11)
T3: Mountain, Flame Rift, Shard Volley, Fireblast (0)

The good thing is that Black Vise is less lethal while on the play. If you go first you still have to go off on the 3rd turn if you want to be sure of your win however. While this is possible, most of the time you'll be using turn 3 to further set up your combo. By turn 4 you should have gathered enough cards to go off, but that may be a turn too late when you're up against burn.

To be fair, burn doesn't always kill on turn 3. I won the second game vs Vise Burn because he didn't draw the Vise and not enough burn to kill me before turn 4.

interesting
le 03/06/2009 13:33
Can you put a list of vise burn please?

le 03/06/2009 13:36
I'm curious too about vise burn :)
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